4x4 advice wanted for my dumb idea....

"Die-Trying" (die-trying) 01/13/2017 at 18:28 • Filed to: None

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i have been wanting to build a model t. i have one almost lined up. and i have been having daydreams. a low slung full time 4x4 model t, with wide short tires.

jet hot roadster

so here is the problem. i know that it is hard on parts driving regular full size, full fendered 4x4 around, ON PAVEMENT in 4x4 all the time. but what i would like some advice, or opinions, is how hard would it be on the driveline in a lightweight model t. thinking MAYBE 1700 lbs, with nearly all of that weight being engine and driveline.

thanks.......

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 18:32

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Get a full time 4WD transfer case or an AWD/4WD selectable

deekster_caddy > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 18:33

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I can’t imagine any full time 4x4 that would be happy on pavement, no matter what the weight. It will steer like shit - you are either forcing it to skid every time you turn, or it will hop like mad if the tires can grip. Broken u-joints are in your future.

Die-Trying > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 01/13/2017 at 18:39

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that would be ideal............HOWEVER, i DO have in the yard, a truck 4 speed with transfer case, not full time box. its a sm465, with a np205 set up, or, i also have an old dodge divorced transfer case(np205)....... and kinda wanting to use whats already laying here......

Die-Trying > deekster_caddy 01/13/2017 at 18:46

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thanks......

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 19:26

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Putting the Model T body on a Bronco II/Ranger (blind guess, but wheelbase should be close) frame would probably be the best way, unfortunately. Fabricating body mounts should be less taxing than trying to modify the T frame for drivetrain and suspension, especially 4wd. I’ve stuffed a small block 350/700R4 and Mustang II front end on a Model A pickup frame. Space became a problem without a front axle/driveshaft/transfer case to contend with.

Edit: Ranger/Bronco II probably wouldn’t fit the low slung criteria.

Die-Trying > Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever 01/13/2017 at 19:44

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i am planning to go full madman, and TRY TO cram it all into a set of T rails. i am still in the planning stages so its all still fuzzy on details. but was going to try full size squarebody chevy blazer axles, and hang the front on a suicide front suspension set up. move the headers outside the frame , and migrate the engine, trans(manual), case over to the pass side some. was going to use front and midplates, and plates for the transfer case to make the frame rigid.

it will involve a lot of time with the hoist and cherry pickers, to get things to “fit” but i am also trying to get it somewhat low slung.

and space will definitely be at a premium.........

thanks for the advice......

TahoeSTi > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 19:44

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It can’t be worst then driving with 3 limited slip diffs Front Middle and Rear, with sticky summer tires. I say DO IT!

Die-Trying > TahoeSTi 01/13/2017 at 19:59

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the glorious SKIDS await......... and if things get bad theres always the chicken 2wd lever......

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 20:07

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Even with the light weight full time 4WD will drive like crap on dry roads. I’d just use a manual transfer case and put it into 4wd if you want to show off. BTW I’ve got a collision damaged Isuzu Pickup that would be perfect for this project. 

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 20:16

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Finish the FrankinBeetle first!!!

Party-vi > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 21:10

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sounds like you’d be better off getting a wrecked AWD car and Frankenstein-ing the drivetrain to a model T chassis. I bet you could find an older A4 quattro that would make a good parts car for an AWD system on the cheap.

The Snowman > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 21:39

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Get a full-time/part-time tcase like xj and zj jeeps had as an option.

Die-Trying > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/13/2017 at 22:14

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thanks, the idea has been to have a super small lightweight car, that weighs nearly nothing, but can dead hook off the line. was hoping for cornering too, but might have to settle for Drift-Monster.

i have, been sitting in the yard, a good manual 4 speed(sm465) and transfer case(np205) that i have been wanting to put to use. and a 350 that is nearly usable, when i swap my 305*cough for it.....

the T donor is ALMOST a done deal

been wanting to keep myself challenged.

Die-Trying > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 01/13/2017 at 22:19

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the Franken beetle is TOP priority..... i sat in it the other day making car sounds(the car makes its own noises)......

it just takes time to get parts piled high enough for new projects, and you have to start lining up lame ducks early to get them all in a row......

the franken beetle is CLOSE......

Die-Trying > Party-vi 01/13/2017 at 22:23

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not a bad idea, but im wanting to use what i already have laying around.

Party-vi > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 22:33

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the easiest way to keep your ride low might be to flip your chassis, ala this ‘25 Dodge. the body has been channeled and the suspension/driveline components are all above the frame.

Die-Trying > The Snowman 01/13/2017 at 22:36

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now that i squashed my brain thinking about it, i do have, as a spare, for my short shortbed truck a np203(full time(has a center differential))case. i just dont have the manual trans to 203 adapter. i’ll have to do some research, and see about some spline counts, 203 has the th350 output shaft splines on its input, and i’m not sure what the sm465 4x4 trans has for its output splines. would also need to round up THE adapter....... the other downside, is that the 203 is a chaindriven case, as opposed to the 205 being a gear to gear.

BUT these are not bad ideas, thanks.........

Die-Trying > Party-vi 01/13/2017 at 22:47

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thanks for the ideas,

there are only a couple like them, the underslung chasis, that i have seen. it would be either building underslung, or possibly trying to “Z” one side of the frame to clear the driveshaft and carrier.

but underslung looks much more elegant.......

shop-teacher > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 23:13

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This is a terrible idea ... I absolutely LOVE it!

You will want a transfer case that you can switch into 2wd, because 4wd won’t turn for shit on dry pavement. I really hope you pull this off, because I really want to see it.

May have found a decent K5 semi-locally.

http://rockford.craigslist.org/cto/5955040482.html

Die-Trying > shop-teacher 01/13/2017 at 23:29

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AND the blazer has a manual transmission......i dont think i would be able to hand the money over quick enough........ that is a nice mostly clean truck.....

yeah, one of my friends has been threatening to build a t-bucket. i want to up the ante, and go BOLD. even if i dont manage to pull it off, well there is no shame in failing while daring greatly. anybody can drop a v8, and auto trans in a T. but 4wd? i MIGHT have a different transfer case laying around (full time case) but i’ll have to do some research and see about spline counts, and see if THE correct adapter is available anywhere. IF. i’d much rather use whats already laying there though.

i am stoked about the idea, i just need to think out a few more details. its the after-bug project......... thanks.....

shop-teacher > Die-Trying 01/13/2017 at 23:52

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It’s a bit of a drive, so I have to get a hall pass for the bulk of a day away from the kids and a buddy to come with. Hopefully I can get out there Sunday.

Agreed, if you’re going to try something, try something weird and crazy.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Die-Trying 01/20/2017 at 17:22

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Better idea: get an Astro AWD transfer case. It doesn’t lock, but it all fits S10 hardware and has a fluid coupling to the front axle so it’s never uncoupled. Permanent rear drive, fluid coupling front drive, dirt simple, and because it’s basically got a torque converter going forward, you’ll never get *stuck* stuck.

Die-Trying > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/20/2017 at 17:50

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i cant remember the last time i saw an awd astro here in my part of the world. the thing is, that i have already the manual truck 4 speed, and transfer box(np205) laying in the yard. the model T, is almost a certain done deal. the pile of parts that i own for the project is starting to get to be decent size. still need some axles.

i also have(laying elsewhere) a transfer case, with a differential in it(np203). i would need to track down THE coupler for it, and the manual 4 speed gear box.

mostly trying to figure how to make IF i CAN MAKE what is already here work.

have had a ton of fun with the short short bed i have. it has a 3spd auto, and a np203, and it handles like its on rails.

would be spectacular to have a manual v8 awd model T

but that is some good thinking. thanks for the suggestion.......

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/23/2017 at 19:30

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Don’t do it unless you can hoon. This car is so ridiculour that It makes me tear up. Seriously. But there are some good explanations here and some stuff that would be great for your project.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/23/2017 at 20:05

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that little mustang is spectacular. i am wanting something that will dead-hook, and stick to the road, and weigh nothing.

i cant so much hoon, but i am halfway decent at keeping stuff on the road, and painted side up.

from what i have heard i would be better off finding a different transfer box(one that has a differential in it) and i DO have a different case, but would need two different $$$ adapters $$$ to make that work with any of the transmissions that i have.

SO, i am going to need to either do some shopping, and find another manual trans and case combination that is already together(they are not exactly falling out of trees anymore) , or spend some money on adapters, OR use what i have laying around and make IT work...... 

i am leaning HEAVILY on building what i have, make it work, and drive around it......

but i am still shopping until things get nailed down.......

thanks for the link. it was a fun watch.......

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/23/2017 at 20:23

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I’m glad you enjoyed it. Ken Block is a guy who is not very telegenic, but a helluva driver. I find all of his Gymkhana videos highly stimulating.

All of what you are trying to do is Greek to me. I read a bunch of the comments and they were lost on me. I have (almost) zero 4WD/AWD But I’ll be following!

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/23/2017 at 20:49

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awd is basically a run all the time everywhere box (np203) which i have a 203 box, but it came off of an auto, and has a different input spline count. i would also need to produce an adapter to go between it and any of my manual transmissions.

i have a 4wd manual trans and transfer box(np205), it would have to be run in 2wd whenever its on pavement.

i would need to either compromise, and do most of my driving in 2wd, and only run 4x4 IF and WHEN. or i need to find an already coupled manual trans and 203 box.

but 4x4 model T is happening........ the challenge of it just CALLS to me...... something about stuffing a 5lb bag full of 20 lbs worth of stuff.......

and block is a treasure, one of those Evel Kneivel types.......

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/23/2017 at 21:42

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I’d want all fluid-coupled everything.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 02/25/2017 at 08:31

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Hey Stranger, have you been in hiding? I posted some wheel and tire updates on Rusty.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 02/26/2017 at 00:33

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i been working a little bit in the outside world.

seen the updates, LOOKING GOOD. it might look a little bit awkward to YOU at the mmoment, because it is a big change, but it is a very nice fit.

i was sourcing floor materials for the bug( i cut the roof off of another bug), and sourcing electrical switches for the bug(i robbed some switches out of a 65 chevy truck) and ran a few wires in the interior of the bug(just putting some wires in place need to get the switch situation figured out), and found a rear view mirror for it (its a curved mirror from a boat) but i have been making real world progress. oh, and i had a friend order for me a purple metal flake steering wheel for it........priorities right?

also the last couple of evenings i helped a few kids take apart a 63 chevy truck, with a 230 inline 6, it had eaten the fiber cam gear, so THEY took it apart, and I put it back together..... fired it up tonight.

have you had a chance to start getting rusty prepped for start up?.......